Update from @AmericanAir
@lizditz This interview has not been submitted to AA yet. We have decided not to air this audio. We thank those who shared their opinions.
On April 20, 2012 Meryl Dorey of the Australian Vaccine Network (AVN) announced that:
Australia's Vaccination Awareness and Information Service transcribed the interview. For the sake of clarity, I will put the interviewer (who at this time is unknown) in green type and indented; Meryl's words in red type and indented.
ER: The debate over vaccinations has received an increasing amount of attention in recent years as questions have been raised regarding the safety of compulsory vaccines. And joining us now to give her view is Meryl Dorey. Meryl is president of the Australian Vaccination Network, as well as editor of Living Wisdom magazine, and we’re delighted to welcome her to The Executive Report. Meryl, welcome to the show.
The "questions about the safety of compulsory vaccinations" are raised only by those who oppose vaccinations and whose goals are the elimination of vaccine programs.
Why did the Executive Report choose to interview Ms. Dorey, a woman with only a high-school diploma and no known training in immunology, vaccinology, or epidemiology? Ms. Dorey's problems with telling the truth and accuracy about vaccines and did I mention her little fundraising problem and her other little fundraising problem? And that other one. I would like to know why.
Meryl: Thanks very much.
ER: Now Meryl, vaccines are designed to repress disease but there’s been some recent issues with the whooping cough vaccine that might be a sign of things to come. What’s going on there?
Why are they asking this ignorant woman? Why not someone from Immunise Australia or Professor Peter McIntyre or Julie Leask or even Tom Sidwell, a PhD candidate in immunology who is a gifted science writer?
Meryl: Well, vaccines are made to create antibodies, and antibodies only mean that you’ve been exposed to a disease; they don’t mean that you’re immune.
My jaw dropped when I read that. On the whole, having the disease and having the vaccine against the disease activate the same immune response. Ms. Dorey is a "vaccine expert" and can spout such easily refutable nonsense?
And what we’ve found with the whooping cough vaccine is that, yes, it is creating the antibodies, but it’s also bringing a new disease, a new form of whooping cough to the fore and this form of disease is not covered by the vaccine.
This is just crazy talk and completely inaccurate. What is accurate:
- Since 2005, we've known that "infection-acquired immunity against pertussis disease wanes after 4-20 years and protective immunity after vaccination wanes after 4-12 years"
- We know that the acellular pertussis vaccine only has an effectiveness rate of 80-85%
- Evidence for "new disease" is faint
- Yes, some of the genotypes have shifted, but the shift doesn't seem to affect the potency of the vaccine.
This is what science does: continue to grow, to address problems.
So in the United States and overseas we’re seeing record numbers of cases of this whooping cough.
Yes, California had whooping cough in 2010 but in 2011 not so much. Why? Think the adolescent booster campaign had anything to do with it? And gee, only 11% of Australian adults are current on vaccines (including a pertussis vaccine in the prior ten years). Do you think the low vaccination rate might have something to do with the pertussis epidemic in Australia?
We’re seeing more cases than we’ve had since before the vaccine was introduced
She has made this claim before and had it thoroughly debunked. She's lying, pure and simple. Furthermore, Dorey is ignoring the changes and advances in diagnostic techniques, such as PCR, have made in reported rates.
and it’s a much more dangerous disease.
This is an assertion without evidence. "Whooping cough deaths were higher during the 1990s".
So for the first time in decades we’re seeing babies die. So the vaccine’s not working and we’re seeing similar situations with measles and mumps and we may see this with more diseases into the future. So we need to look at what we’re doing.
Babies have been dying of pertussis all along: "From 1993 – 2008, 16 babies under 12 months lost their lives to pertussis. Fatalities continue right up to the present day." So Dorey's claim of: "...first time in decades" a flat lie. "Vaccine not working"? And the measles and mumps vaccines "aren't working" claim is an easily refutable lie.
ER: Now what’s your view on the state of autism as it relates to vaccinations?
Why are they asking this woman with a high-school education and no expertise in autism? Wouldn't they have been better off asking an expert like Bruce Tonge?
Meryl: Well, autism has been related to vaccination in the medical literature for a very long time,
No it hasn't. A simple search for vaccine autism on PubMed reveals only 4 citations prior to 1998, including a review of Harris Coulter's 1993 crank screed against vaccination. but that's hardly "medical literature". The vaccine-autism connection was first, Wakefield's MMR theory in 1998, and then the equally flawed mercury theory in 2001. Both have been evaluated in studies having hundreds of thousands subjects, and no connection has been found.
but the study that everybody talks about is the one by Andrew Wakefield that was printed in 1998 in the Lancet. And this study says that the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine maybe a cause of autism. A lot of people are saying that this journal article has been discredited
Yes. Even the majority of Wakefield's co-authors withdrew their names from the paper, six years after publication. The paper was finally retracted in 2011. Wakefield falsified data.
but what they’re ignoring is the fact that since this original paper was published, there have been many other papers verifying this finding.
Dorey can't even get her misinformation (actually, lies) right. No paper has replicated Wakefield's "autistic entercolitis" finding. No paper has replicated the MMR-autism link. No paper has replicated any gut-autism causation.
So again, we have the question “are vaccines related to autism?”. We’ve had an increase of autism from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 88, and the only common denominator seems to be the increasing use of vaccinations.
"The only common denominator"? No, no and again no. Do I have to say it again? Vaccines do not cause autism. (A nice list of things that have changed since the 1980s)
Here are some of the factors in increased identification of autism:
- What about diagnostic expansion? (Here's the difference across DSM I through IV)
- What about diagnostic substitution?
- What about underdiagnosis in the past?
- What about improved ascertainment?
- What about the addition of autism as a special education category?
- What about increased awareness, or "social influence"?
I'm sure this list isn't exhaustive. It just goes to show how wrong Ms. Dorey is.
So we need to look at this openly and not try and suppress the information.
For my money, the autism and vaccines question has been addressed about as openly as possible. Who is suppressing "information"? Nothing is being "suppressed". The facts are that MMR vccines do not cause autism. Mercury in vaccines does not cause autism. The two together don't cause autism.
ER: So Meryl, what do you feel we should do to ensure the wellbeing of all children?
Meryl: Well, vaccination is a medical procedure and it carries with it risks and benefits. So parents need to be aware of all of the information. We need to have real access to information
I wonder if Meryl knows how to use PubMed, or the Pink Book. And hey! There's the internet, with resources like the National Network for Immunization Information and Every Child by Two and Vaccinate Your Baby and the Vaccine Education Center at CHOP and more. If that's not "real access to information" I don't know what is.
and vaccination should never be compulsory because it is not 100% safe,
Nirvana fallacy! Nothing is "100%". However, driving your child to a doctor's appointment which would include vaccination is riskier than having the vaccine.
and no government has the right to say “you have to put your child’s health at risk because we have made this procedure compulsory”.
It has been shown again and again that vaccines are a very low-risk medical intervention. Vaccines do not put a "child's health at risk". In fact, failing to vaccinate significantly raises the risk of illness for your child.
Vaccines have not been subjected to true double-blind trials. They need to be done. They’ve also never been scientifically tested independently. Most vaccine trials, like most drug trials, are paid for by the pharmaceutical companies that makes the vaccines. We need the government to take a stand on this. And most importantly, we need this study that we’ve been asking for for decades, which compares the overall health of the fully-vaccinated with the fully-unvaccinated.
The famous study. I know the anti-vaccine brigade "have been asking for it" since 1998 or so, but have never accepted why it would be unethical. And the natural experiments have been done, and found the vaccinated children are healthier.
And when that study is done, parents will finally have confidence to say, “yes, we’re going to vaccinate because we feel it’s in our child’s best interests”.
ER: Meryl, this has been very informative. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts with us today.
Meryl: Thank you.
ER: Visit the Australian Vaccination Network online at avn.org.au
Updated to Add:
The following three documents were compiled by Australian Ken McLeod 2010-2011, with assistance from many.
The interview will appear on American Airline's in-flight "Executive Briefing". This is produced for American Airlines by Altitude Media. I wonder who, and how, the interview was set up, considering how bad Ms. Dorey misrepresents the facts.
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Ms. Dorey also said that she will "will also be published in the Airlines' American Way in-flight magazine over this period."
American Way® is the in-flight magazine of American Airlines and a trusted companion of customers for more than 40 years. American Way, available to every customer on every American Airlines flight, consistently delivers award-winning content and design that covers the latest trends in travel, lifestyle, and business. And to earn the attention of frequent fliers, it publishes twice each month, on the 1st and again on the 15th.
Susan Stahl Gordon PRESIDENT AND GROUP PUBLISHER, American Airlines Publishing
Michael Woody, Publisher, American Way Magazine
Adam Pitluk Editor, American Way Magazine
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Editorial Department Phone (817) 967-1784
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Letters to the Editor E-mail firstname.lastname@example.org
- Media release: https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Media-Release—AVN-Information-to-air-on-American-Airlines.html?soid=1101800214009&aid=dZ_4B3ToI5c
- Interview (mp3): American Airlines interview with Meryl Dorey
- American Airlines Interview Meryl Dorey https://www.antivaxxers.com/?p=4668