Doug Copp: Disaster Expert or Massive Fraud?

Update January 30, 2010. Current post is Doug Copp, Dubious & Self-Promoting "Rescue Expert" Shows Up In Haiti

Recommended Reading

• Snopes.com on "Triangle of Life" and Mr. Copp
• Marla Petal's refutation of Copp's claims, and sound earthquake safety advice. Clicking www.cert-la.com/RejoinderToDougCopp.pdf will download a (PDF) document
• Voices on the Ground in Haiti: Stanford Emergency Medicine Team -- Narrative with Links to Posts

(Index: *Doug Copp: Disaster Hero or Massive Fraud? (links to the Albuquerque Journal's four-part piece criticizing Mr. Copp's actions and rebuttals of Copp's claims from the Red Cross.)
*Doug Copp II. Includes in the comments a huge, long, repetitive, blustering missive from Mr. Copp himself. In the interests of fairness, I left it up.
* Doug Copp III, a rebuttal of Doug Copp's advice from expert sources.
*Doug Copp IV, more venom from Mr. Copp and more rebuttals from those more qualified. )

[Update October 15, 2004. More, including good comments, at Doug Copp II (on this blog). Going elsewhere, Nuketown

When did anything any big organization says become suspect? Now it is the standard earthquake advicefrom the American Red Cross, DROP, COVER, AND HOLD ON.

In a number of circles, an e-mail about "Triangle of Life" is going around. It often starts like this:

My name is Doug Copp. I am the Rescue Chief and Disaster Manager of the American Rescue Team International (ARTI), the world's most experienced rescue team. The information in this article will save lives in an earthquake.

The problems are, Copp's claims to experience are almost certainly fraudulent, there's no "ARTI" except in his own mind, and his advice is bad, if not dangerous.

Copp's site forgets to mention his coverage in the New Mexico papers....that convincingly lay out the evidence that Copp is now a fraud and has always been a fraud. It is an interesting story, kind of like a Munchausen syndrome.

Mr. Copp's assertions in his message that everyone is always crushed if they get under something is incorrect.

there is substantial evidence that Copp's claims of heroism and life-threatening injuries regarding 9/11 are not true. An Albuquerque Journal investigation also found a nearly 20-year history of exaggeration, self-promotion, freeloading and very little evidence of real rescue work.

New Mexican's Claims of Ground Zero Rescue Work Called Into Question

A 9/11 Phony — a series published starting July 11, 2004
Self-proclaimed rescue guru Doug Copp's mission to ground zero was considered so important that he had clearance to be flown to New York even though all civilian air traffic in the United States had been grounded. Once there, he says he assumed a pivotal role and sustained devastating injuries while wading through the "toxic soup" in search of survivors and victims, and was awarded nearly $650,000 for his injuries. But there is little evidence Copp performed real rescue work, and it is doubtful that he deserves compensation.

READ DAY 1:
Claims of Heroism Called Into Question;
Appeals to 9/11 Fund Had Lawmakers' Help;
Justice Dept. Inquiry Requested by Udall

READ DAY 2:
Doug Copp 'Bombero' Arrives at Ground Zero;
AG: Doug Copp's Fund Raising Violated N.M. Law
Ab. Journal Jet Trips To Disaster Status Quo

READ DAY 3:
Striking Out at Ground Zero
Doctors Differ on Copp's Actual Ailments
Copp Apparently Missed 9/11 Fund Deadline--Did not Seek TImely Medical Care

READ DAY 4:
Copp Says He's A Hero; Experienced Credentialed Disaster Responders Just Laugh'
Copp Says Proof Is in the Footage

FOLLOW UPS:
A Widow Defrauded by Copp and his "deathometer" Ordeal(Sunday, July 18, 2004) more
U.S. Dept. of Justice Fraud Unit Investigating Copp's 9/11 Injury Claim

Now read the response by a guy who actually knows what he is talking about.

Earthquake Safety in the U.S.

Recently it has been brought to my attention that an email from Doug Copp, titled "Triangle of Life," is making its rounds again on the Internet. This message, below, originally distributed on July 14, 2000, remains the same. Its content was reviewed by the U.S. Geological Survey and the Federal Emergency Management Agency for concurrence. "Drop, Cover, and Hold On" is CORRECT, accurate, and APPROPRIATE for use in the United States for Earthquake safety. Mr. Copp's assertions in his message that everyone is always crushed if they get under something is incorrect.

Recently, the American Red Cross became aware of a challenge to the earthquake safety advice "Drop, Cover, and Hold On." This is according to information from Mr. Doug Copp, the Rescue Chief and Disaster Manager of American Rescue Team International (a private company not affiliated with the U.S. Government or other agency.)

He says that going underneath objects during an earthquake [as in children being told to get under their desks at school] is very dangerous, and fatal should the building collapse in a strong earthquake. He also states that "everyone who gets under a doorway when a building collapses is killed." He further states that "if you are in bed when an earthquake happens, to roll out of bed next to it," and he also says that "If an earthquake happens while you are watching television and you cannot easily escape by getting out the door or window, then lie down and curl up in the fetal position next to a sofa, or large chair."

These recommendations are inaccurate for application in the United States and inconsistent with information developed through earthquake research.

Mr. Copp based his statements on observations of damage to buildings after an earthquake in Turkey. It is like "apples and oranges" to compare building construction standards, techniques, engineering principles, and construction materials between Turkey and the United States.

We at the American Red Cross have studied the research on the topic of earthquake safety for many years. We have benefited from extensive research done by the California Office of Emergency Services, California Seismic Safety Commission, professional and academic research organizations, and emergency management agencies, who have also studied the recommendation to "drop, cover, and hold on!" during the shaking of an earthquake.

Personally, I have also benefited from those who preceded me in doing earthquake education in California since the Field Act was passed in 1933. What the claims made by Mr. Copp of ARTI, Inc., does not seem to distinguish is that the recommendation to "drop, cover, and hold on!" is a U.S.-based recommendation based on U.S. Building Codes and construction standards. Much research in the United States has confirmed that "Drop, Cover, and Hold On!" has saved lives in the United States.

Engineering researchers have demonstrated that very few buildings collapse or "pancake" in the U.S. as they might do in other countries. Using a web site to show one picture of one U.S. building that had a partial collapse after a major quake in an area with thousands of buildings that did not collapse during the same quake is inappropriate and misleading.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), which collects data on injuries and deaths from all reportable causes in the U.S., as well as data from three University-based studies performed after the Loma Prieta (September, 1989) and Northridge (January, 1994) earthquakes in California, the following data are indicated:

Loma Prieta: 63 deaths, approximately 3,700 people were injured. Most injuries happened as a result of the collapse of the Cypress Street section of I-880 in Oakland.

Northridge: 57 deaths, 1,500 serious injuries. Most injuries were from falls caused by people trying to get out of their homes, or serious cuts and broken bones when people ran, barefooted, over broken glass (the earthquake happened in the early morning on a federal holiday when many people were still in bed.)

There were millions of people in each of these earthquake-affected areas, and of those millions, many of them reported to have "dropped, covered, and held on" during the shaking of the earthquake. Therefore, we contend that "Drop, Cover, and Hold On" indeed SAVED lives, not killed people.

Because the research continues to demonstrate that, in the U.S., "Drop, Cover, and Hold On!" works, the American Red Cross remains behind that recommendation. It is the simplest, reliable, and easiest method to teach people, including children.

The American Red Cross has not recommended to use a doorway for earthquake protection for more than a decade. The problem is that many doorways are not built into the structural integrity of a building, and may not offer protection. Also, simply put, doorways are not suitable for more than one person at a time.

The Red Cross, remaining consistent with the information published in "Talking About Disaster: Guide for Standard Messages," (visit http://www.disastereducation.org/guide.html ) states that if you are in bed when an earthquake happens, to remain there. Rolling out of bed may lead to being injured by debris on the floor next to the bed. If you have done a good job of earthquake mitigation (that is, removing pictures or mirrors that could fall on a bed; anchoring tall bedroom furniture to wall studs, and the like), then you are safer to stay in bed rather than roll out of it during the shaking of an earthquake.

Also, the Red Cross strongly advises not try to move (that is, escape) during the shaking of an earthquake. The more and the longer distance that someone tries to move, the more likely they are to become injured by falling or flying debris, or by tripping, falling, or getting cut by damaged floors, walls, and items in the path of escape. Identifying potential "void areas" and planning on using them for earthquake protection is more difficult to teach, and hard to remember for people who are not educated in earthquake engineering principles.

The Red Cross is not saying that identifying potential voids is wrong or inappropriate. What we are saying is that "Drop, Cover, and Hold On!" is NOT wrong -- in the United States. The American Red Cross, being a U.S.-based organization, does not extend its recommendations to apply in other countries. What works here may not work elsewhere, so there is no dispute that the "void identification method" or the "Triangle of Life" may indeed be the best thing to teach in other countries where the risk of building collapse, even in moderate earthquakes, is great.

Sincerely,

Rocky Lopes, PhD
Manager, Community Disaster Education Preparedness Department
American Red Cross National Headquarters

Sites in the United States disseminating this false and dangerous information (at least for California)
triangle of life Omega;
Great Dreams
Golddust Films
MSM
online Religion forum

[I am limiting this to US sites because our Red Cross is strong]

This "wannabe hero" thing is a strong undercurrent...

Home of the Heroes has a medals verification page....

Probably less than 1,000 Navy SEALs served in Vietnam, yet virtually every bar in America, on any given night, appears to be full of heroic Nam Vet SEALs.  The facts are, out of some 9 million men and women who served in the military during the period of the Vietnam War, less than one-third of them ever served in or near Vietnam.  Only about 1 in 5 In Country veterans ever heard a shot fired in anger, slightly more than 150,000 received wounds in combat, and only 245 earned our Nation's most prestigious and rare military award, the Medal of Honor.

Wannabe debunker page from Marine Scout Sniper; Fake POWs; men who've made falseclaims to be SEALs

Comments

[liz]

Finally Snopes weighed in:

Doug Copp urban legend in his own mnd.

[deano]

Didn't know the Red Cross dropped the doorway suggestion a decade ago. I never believed that one...

[Bonnie]

Live and learn.. say Liz if I am on your notify, which I think I am, I'm not getting them.

[Ennis]

His advice also doesn't make any sense. Anything strong enough to crush a desk can also crush you. Or is he saying you should try to run outside, risk the chance of getting hit before you get out, b/c if you stay inside the roof will collapse? That wouldn't make alot of sense b/c it's more about debris than about getting hit by roofs, like with fires where you're more likely to get choked to death from the smoke than to get burned alive, so you don't run into the flames to get out.

[steve]

People like Doug Copp scare me. They profess to know a lot and when the chips are down, when the feces are hitting the fan, they bolt. What about the families of the maintenance/ enviromental service people that got hardly anyting? The bastard got $650,000 from the September 11th fund (tax free) and he should rot in hell.
The terrible thing is that his crap advise is still making the rounds on the internet and will probably do more harm than good.
Copp is a con man and he prays on the fears of others and should be arrested for the fraud he is.

Mr Copp if you should read this, Shame on you, you will be in good company in hell

[Hakan Gök]

I think that Copp is right. If a building collapse, it is more likely to crush the desk. However if you are lied down near a washing machine, it is probably you have a spare to survive. Copp is only wrong for some cases: If the earthquake is not great, you may prevent injuring from the pieces falled, being under desk.

[liz]

Doug Copp's advice is almost certainly wrong in the United States, where we have strongly-enforced building codes. In the very large earthquakes in California in the last two decades, the scenarios he envisioned did not happened.

The other part of the story is Copp's almost-certain fraud in asking for compensation from a victim's fund.

If a man lies about one thing, surely he will lie about another.

[Jess]

http://www.amerrescue.org/

[Liz]

Mr. Anonymous Jess's link (which I also link to in the 6th paragraph from the top above) is to Mr. Copp's site. Many of Mr. Copp's claims cannot be substantiated.

[Nerd Sanctuary]

After weighing all of the controversial information I have read regarding Doug Copp's claims that the 'Triangle of Life' method saves lives, my conclusion is this: Physics-wise, his method makes sense. But not under all circumstances. In a multi-floored concrete building such as those in third world countries or older areas of some cities, the danger of the ceiling collapsing would be far more substantial than in more modern structures. With the different building codes in Canada & the USA it is hard to make accurate comparisons. My conclusion is that people should be aware of both methods so that they are capable of making a judgement call based on where they are at the time.

[german rojas]

I need more informacion above to recomendation doug copp earthquakes. Is not true this information ?

[Colin]

According to Mr. Copp's website he is on his way to 'help' the Tsunami victims. Shouldn't this man be locked up by now?

[bill]

I dont think anyone should be critical of what he wrote as he states its particularly for travel. I think that most of you are negative.. and have never experienced any of this first hand as he has. which none of you debate.. you didnt see any dead bodies. yet you are so quick to criticize his information. It is logical that a desk will take much of any compressive force and hopefully this would help you by the time the roof hit you. He does not state that you "will live"
There are people who "do" and people who "talk".. he obviously is a doer.. whereas you are talkers. I myself know this from experience. 99% of people have a take flight response.. and will not stop to save your ass at any kind of risk to them. I have broken down a locked door of a house to inform the very irate "im going to kick your asses" owner that his attic was on fire. Ive pulled someone from a totalled car twice.. and if you have ever been around the hissing, dysfunctional sounds of an accident like that.. its terrifying not knowing if the car is going to blow at any second. Yet you do for other people what you would hope(pray) someone would do for you. Last but not least i thought i had seen someone dumped from a car..perhaps shot. What had actually happened was that the fellow had been hit and carried a full block on the car before falling off. No one in the immediate area would go near him. I did.. and i dont know first aid.. when someone standing there said "I know first aid" i looked at him incredulously and said. "Do you want to check for a pulse"
I commend this man for being able to crawl into extremely dangerous situations and put his own life at risk. In hopes of saving someone.. someone like you. You should all be ashamed! Actions speak louder than words. -bill

[Carolina]

Doug Copp and ARTI are real:
http://www.amerrescue.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/amerrescue/sitesearch.cgi

[William]

Check out this URL for a point by point rejoinder to Copp's "triangle of life" info, by Marla Petal, Ph.D.

http://www.cert-la.com/RejoinderToDougCopp.pdf

Petal is Director of Community Mitigation Programs for GeoHazards International and Director of Boğaziçi University, Kandilli Observatory and Earthquake Research Institute's Disaster Preparedness Education Program in Turkey. She also did her doctoral dissertation at UCLA on the causes of death during the big Kocaeli earthquake in Turkey.

Her point about earthquakes shaking things SIDE-TO-SIDE should give everyone pause before staking out any "void areas" next to large, heavy objects...

[Ed Gaidies]

Doug..As a Canadian..I consider you ...just another Judge Judy case.

An ass hole trying to drain the system.

What was your concept as a Canadian to be there in the first place.

You don't even deserve my comment.

After watching this...guys like me hate to consider you a Canadian.

[fereidoon jahesh]

Dear sir
I am going to resarch about earthguake and i need to see a film about that, AND know more than about " Triangle of life" from Mr Doug copp.
thanks
jahesh

[larisa]

wow. i really dont know what to think . . i was going to do this as an editorial for school, but now i dont know.

[hector b]

also he claims that in the erthquake of mexico children were killm under the desck in school
first here in mexico we dont tell children to get under the desck
second the erthquake of 1985 took place befor 7 am kid were not at school yet
and i kow that because i was in junior high at thet year
thirth his teory is not good with the mexican estandars of construction

[SARGIRL]

FOR A DOUG COPP COPYCAT CHECK OUT:
www.scottshieldsfraud.co.uk/

THESE FOLKS HAVE A DISEASE!

[SARGIRL]

FOR A DOUG COPP COPYCAT CHECK OUT:
www.scottshieldsfraud.co.uk/

FOLLOW THE BREAKING STORY OF THE PHONEY 9/11 CAPTAIN

[Müge]

Thank you Doug Copp!
Thank you for saving
people's lifes..
yOU aRE a Hero=)

from Turkey
Müge Sarışın Özelge

[Johnny B.]

Come on! "...there's no "ARTI" except in his own mind, and his advice is bad, if not dangerous. "
Doug is a hero for real. You losers need to get out and save one person before you talk.

No ARTI? What's this? http://amerrescue.org/dateline.htm

[Johnny B.]

what about this? a sworn affidavit.
http://www.amerrescue.org/tomlang/documents/lentz.pdf

[Johnny B.]

Here's a sworn affidavit that he WAS at Ground Zero...
http://www.amerrescue.org/tomlang/documents/lentz.pdf

[mlg]

Having grown up in California I have been several earthquakes. At the time it hits its hard to discern just what is happening and when you do you stop and feel. Feel how strong it is and should you run for cover. At most precious seconds are wasted. I dont know Doug personally and I cant call him a liar. I think that the information he gives can be helpful. USA may have better building standards that other countries but lets not forget in an earthquake that decides to shake nothing is safe. Everything is fair game. I learned in my geology class in college that it isnt the earthquake that kills its whats around you and I tell that to my children. i think the triangle is good information and i will try to remember that should I be in another earthquake and have to make quick decisions. I sure as heck wont be standing by a glass wall , bricks and any other thing that becomes a projectile those of us with experience know this already. As far as Doug bilking the system we all know that stuff catches up with you if not in this life then another. Godspeed to all.

[Dean Engelhardt]

As a FEMA recovery worker during the aftermath of Northridge, my partner and I were at the Northridge Meadows apartment complex to see what had happened. One of the comments from the Red Cross was that people were better off staying in bed than rolling onto the floor. The map we had of the fatals at the apartments were just the opposite - those that rolled onto the floor lived and those who remained in bed died from the pressure of the collapsed ceilings pressng them into their mattresses and suffocating them.

I was in Anchorage in March of 1964 looking for work as a pilot. I was in a gravel parking lot about three miles east of the famous photo of the collapse of 4th Ave. (I was on 5th.) The Rayleigh Wave was tossing me into the air far enough that my hands were badly cut from my efforts to keep from hitting my knees or my head. In my opinion, anyone using Duck Cover and Hold in a major (above 7.5) earthquake in the ares where the vertical G is greater than 1 will experience severe head trama including broken skulls and necks. (Verified by several doctors, including Dr. Bruce Cummings, FEMA's head of emergency medicine for Southern California. Dr. Norton Humphreys estimated 300,000 dead and 400,000 paralyzed from the neck down due directly from using Duck, Cover and Hold in a Great Quake in Southern California.)

I once tried to find out what studies had been accomplished on Duck, Cover and Hold. No one could identify any. I tried to find out why the various agencies championed the position. Responses I received included Red Cross saying it was due to California OES and FEMA using it, OES saying it was recommended by FEMA and the Red Cross, and FEAM responding that they followed the Red Cross and OES! As I searched further, I received a written response from OES saying that (1) they had never studied it, (2) they are not going to study it, and (3) they will continue to teach it!

Duck, Cover, and Hold came from Duck and Cover from atomic war concerns. Duck and Cover was not intended to protect against falling beams, ceilings, and the like, bu for a different purpose. During an atomic blast, the shock pulse turns brick and mortar buildings into sand. Duck and Cover was designed to provide an air pocket so you won't smother before you dig yourself out.

Whatever you may think of Copp, his Triangle of Life position does work - I've seen this first-hand. Also, those that support Duck, Cover and Hold need to go on the Tower of London tour to the dungeon. A display there shows one of the methods of execution where the prisoner was put in a Duck, Cover and Hold position, strapped so he could not move, and executed by the executioner pressing down on his back The pressure of the thighs against the chest freezes the diaphram and he suffocates quietly. DCH and this method of execution are identical in position and physics.

If any of you still doubt what I have said, try to find any scientific study of the validity of Duck, Cover and Hold!!!!!

The really scary part of this is that the people promoting their idea of earthquake safety don't really know what they are doing. People like Dr. Rocky Lopes think they know what's what and refuse to consider anything else. (I asked him one question: why does Red Cross use DCH. He gave me his reply and then, before I could respond, said he would not talk with me any further!) I believe we will have to have the major quake here in Southern California with an attendant massive loss of life before the powers in charge will decide to rethink their mitigation plans.