April 17 2009 See updates #3 and #4 at the bottom of the post
I was sent to this video by Boing Boing. Steven Anderson is the pastor of Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona. While passing through an internal Border Patrol checkpoint on April 14, 2009, Pastor Anderson declined to have his car searched. He claims he was subsequently beaten and tazed, either by Border Patrol agents or by agents from Arizona's Department of Public Safety (DPS).
Update 4/17: The Sacremento CBS affiliate is reporting that it was DPS agents who tazed Pastor Anderson.
I am not quite sure about this incident -- Pastor Anderson certainly has wounds, but did it all go down as he represented?
According to the Phoenix New Times,
While driving through the checkpoint, located about 70 miles east of Yuma, a Border Patrol dog "alerted" to the pastor's vehicle, and agents instructed him to pull his car over to an inspection area. Anderson refused, claiming the dog had seemed mellow and that the agents had no right to search him. Agents blocked his path for an hour until an officer from the Arizona Department of Public Safety showed up, Anderson says.
The lawmen broke his vehicle's windows with hammers, shot him with a Taser and threw him to the ground, he says.
"He's got his foot on my head," Anderson says of one officer. "I'm shot by more Tasers again... They're just torturing me with these Tasers again and again."
One of the things that caused me to wonder if Pastor Anderson has an agenda: Mrs. Anderson's blog commenter Mrs. W. wrote:
Yep it's disgusting, and it's only going to get worse. I can't believe that so many CHRISTIANS voted for Obama and this mess.
By the way, it is illegal for Obama to be the president, therefore, since he is ineligible, he is NOT the president. He's a masquerader and anything he signs into law isn't valid.
I left a comment:
I want to point out that the searches of American citizens on American soil is a legacy of the Bush Administration's attack on civil liberties, not something President Obama put into place.
I advise you to look at the website https://www.checkpointusa.org/ and the companion blog, https://www.checkpointusa.org/blog/.
There is a scholarly article, Fascism Anyone? by Laurence W. Britt, which identifies 14 warning signs of fascism.
The article The Fourteen Points of Fascism compares Britt's 14 warning signs with the behavior of Bush and individuals in his adminstration.
It will be interesting to see what comes of this. FWIW, the Andersons are also antivaccination.
Update #1 Orac analyzes Mrs. Anderson's critical thinking skills re vaccination
Update #2 Article from ABC 15 News published April 17 2009:
[Anderson] admits to refusing to answer the Border Patrol agent’s questions and his reason is simple.
He argues that our forefathers who drafted the Constitution wrote the Fourth Amendment and Fifth Amendment in order to protect us from becoming a “totalitarian government”.
Checkpoints, he said, violate our civil liberties.
As an American, he said he should have the right to go anywhere he pleases with out the government asking him what he is doing and why.
That is the beauty of America, he argued, the gift of a free society.
He does not believe they have the right to search your car with out a warrant.
Ben Vik, a Yuma Sector Border Patrol spokesman confirms that on April 14, Steve Anderson was on the eastbound lanes of Interstate 8 when he pulled into a checkpoint near mile marker 78.
Vik said one of their canines alerted agents to Anderson’s car.
Border Patrol canines are trained to sniff out illegal narcotics or hidden people.
If the canine suspects something and alerts an agent that gives Border Patrol probable cause to search Anderson’s vehicle.
Anderson refused to the search, he refused to answer questions, and he refused to move to a secondary inspection area.
Border Patrol said Anderson refused to leave his car for more than an hour, which is about when the Department of Public Safety arrived to arrest him.
Anderson describes himself as a “Constitutionalist”.
His wife’s blog is full of references to the concerns the couple have about signs they see as evidence that the U.S. government is morphing into a totalitarian government.
She was born in communist Hungary and explained that she loves America and all the freedoms people have here.
They don’t see the issue as what they are fighting against, but rather fighting for.
Fighting for our freedoms guaranteed in the Constitution, fighting for the right to move freely around the country with out being interrogated, the right for a warrant before a search.
Anderson said he supports border security and believes illegal immigration is a problem, but states that I-8 is not the border.
It is an interstate highway in the interior of our country and therefore doesn’t think it should be there.
He said even if the Border Patrol were upset that he was not answering their questions it does not justify what he believes was an excessive use of force.
He took his incident to the World Wide Web, in part, to broadcast his larger battle over the existence of Border Patrol checkpoints beyond the border.
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled on Border Patrol checkpoints more than 30 years ago.
In 1976, United States V. Martinez-Fuerte the Court found that briefly stopping cars did not violate the Fourth Amendment because they are minimally intrusive and therefore did not constitution an unreasonable search or seizure.
Meantime, Harold Sanders, a spokesman for DPS sent ABC15 News this written statement, “The allegations are being investigated by DPS at this time and I don't have any further information.”
Update #3 Pastor Tased and "Beaten" at Checkpoint Plans to Sue; Admits He's Been Resisting at Checkpoints for Months-- article from the Phoenix New Times
By Ray Stern in News Friday, Apr. 17 2009 @ 4:06PM
Criminal charges have been filed against Steven Anderson, a local pastor we wrote about yesterday who claims he was brutalized at an Interstate 8 checkpoint. Anderson, however, says he's the victim and that he plans to sue the authorities involved in the incident.
His family's personal Web site now includes a box for the collection of legal fees in addition to updates about Anderson's situation. (It says he's pulled in $680 as of 3 p.m.)
We checked in with Anderson this morning by phone. Today's arraignment in Yuma has been postponed, but will take place at some point. The Yuma County Attorney's Office confirms Anderson has been charged with two criminal counts. Anderson's wife, Zsuzsanna, says the misdemeanor charges are for refusing to obey a lawful order and blocking a public highway.
Steven Anderson says he's hired local attorney Mark Victor and that "of course" he plans a lawsuit.
"Are you kidding? Who's going to pay for my windows, for my medical fees?" he says.
Anderson tells New Times he's been doing a lot of traveling in recent years through California, Arizona and Texas, and passed through Border Patrol checkpoints "hundreds" of times without any trouble. But about a year and a half ago, he says, he made the decision he would no longer answer any questions at the checkpoints.
"I decided, 'You know what? I have the right to travel without being searched and without being questioned," he says.
Until this week, agents at the checkpoints never made too big a deal over his passive resistance.
"Usually they let me go after I refused -- that happened many times. Once they held me for 20 minutes," he says.
We asked why, once he realized cops were going to break his vehicle windows, did he not roll down the windows and end the game?
"I was protecting my vehicle from an unlawful inspection," he says.
A blog post critical of Anderson on the Daily Kos today links to several other videos the pastor has made of his anti-checkpoint activism. Writer Henry Porter opines:
Ok... now I'm starting to think this is no casual encounter. Especially given the category: Non-profits and Activism. I'm also less inclined to believe this was an over reaction by authorities seeking to create a situation. I'm thinking we have someone with missionary zeal seeking to stir the pot.
Porter also emphasizes the Andersons extreme right-wing views. But what the Andersons think of homosexuals or Obama isn't the issue at hand. What matters is whether or not law officers crossed the line in dealing with Anderson.
"Why was I bent over with my face in my hands, being Tased repeatedly, and having my head shoved into broken glass?" Anderson wails.
Although a state Department of Public Safety trooper helped smash the windows, it was Border Patrol agents treated him the worst, slamming his face into the broken glass, Anderson says.
"A Border Patrol agent stepped on my head -- stood on my head -- while they continued to Tase me," he says. "I think they have a hair trigger on that Taser."
The Border Patrol has not yet returned a call made yesterday by New Times. DPS issued the following statement today:
- For Immediate Release - Friday, April 17, 2009
Arizona Department of Public Safety Statement Concerning the Arrest of Steven L. Anderson Arrest took place Tuesday, April 14, 2009 at a U.S. Border Patrol Checkpoint
The U.S. Border Patrol asked the Arizona Department of Public Safety to assist their Officers with a combative motorist who refused to cooperate at a checkpoint in the westbound lanes of Interstate 8. Steven L. Anderson, the combative motorist, was arrested by a DPS Officer for resisting a lawful order during the incident and booked into the Yuma County Jail.
Mr. Anderson never filed a complaint with DPS concerning his arrest but instead made a You-Tube video that featured his version of the events of that day.
An investigation by the Arizona Department of Public Safety's Professional Standards Bureau is underway. DPS is looking at current agency policies and procedures that officers must comply with when requested by any agency to respond to checkpoints.
In this particular instance DPS will look at our Officer's response and actions. We will offer no further comment on this incident until the investigation has been concluded.
*It should be noted that in 1976, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of Federal checkpoints near border areas to enforce laws prohibiting illegal immigration. This U.S. Border Patrol checkpoint along Interstate 8 is in compliance with federal law.*
As mentioned in yesterday's post, we covered checkpoints and the laws that allow them in a February 2008 article.
Whether Anderson's got a legal leg to stand on remains to be seen.
Update #4 -- April 17 Arizona
- Phoenix New Times report
- Pastor Anderson's family blog on the event.
- Pastor Anderson's church's website
- April 17 2009 CBS 15 article
- April 17, Phoenix New Times article
I believe that Mr Anderson stated that the Police had Video running of his attempted murder by Police. I would ask all of you to demand to see this Video.
Posted by: Chicken Little | Thursday, April 16, 2009 at 09:18 PM
It seems our dear pastor Anderson has a little drug use and sale in his past.
As Anderson pointed out everything at the checkpoint is on video.
In the video the Border Patrol guys are acting very professional for an hour +, and Anderson is being a total jackass.
Not a pastor I want leading my church!
Liz here -- I emailed Helm to ask him to substantiate his claim. The email address is bogus. "Steven Anderson" is such a common name the allegation would be difficult to pin down by a third party.
Absent evidence to the contrary, I'd say Helm's claim is bogus
Posted by: Bob Helm | Thursday, April 16, 2009 at 09:24 PM
edited to make the YouTube link clickableUm...he seems to have a history of baiting the Border Patrol. Here's a video posted on his YouTube account in February, 2009 in New Mexico. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFS7oZtE8Ks
In the video, he is completely uncooperative, won't open his window, tells them to keep their hands off his car, trying to force the 4th amendment, starts screaming at them to get their hands off his car, etc.
Calls them a liar. The Border Patrol agent is Hispanic with a heavy accent. It escalates. He refuses to allow them to search his vehicle without a warrant, incorrectly claiming that without a warrant, they may not search his car.
I suspect he intentionally baits these confrontations on a regular basis. I would guess that he is well-known among the Border Patrol in those parts.
Posted by: Karoli | Thursday, April 16, 2009 at 10:06 PM
EXACTLY the kind of guy I want running MY church.
Oh, and IF the guy did drugs in the past, that does NOT give a border patrol agent with a bone the right to hassle the pastor. These goons work for us, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Got that?
You call someone a liar when he lies. It's a perfectly good word with a specific meaning. The agent LIED, so the guy called him a LIAR. I got no problem with the truth. What is wrong with YOU? You just trust anyone in a uniform, kiddo? Wise up.
Posted by: Devon Young | Thursday, April 16, 2009 at 11:03 PM
So according to your lame attempt to discredit Pastor Steve, you say, "FWIW, the Andersons are also antivaccination." which just goes to show your ignorance! WE ARE AT WAR WITH A POLICE STATE WHO THINKS THAT IT IS OKAY TO STOMP OUR CONSTITITUTIONAL RIGHTS.
I can't wait for them to come to your house and break in without a warrent... I pray it happen to your family soon
Posted by: smart american | Thursday, April 16, 2009 at 11:38 PM
How do you know that there was drug use in his past?
Posted by: Danielle | Thursday, April 16, 2009 at 11:52 PM
@Bob Helm,
I've emailed you to ask you to substantiate your claim that Pastor Anderson has "a little drug use and sale in his past."
@smart american, I can see that you are not a regular reader of this blog. Folks who have the Andersons' attitude toward vaccination have a thinking problem.
Posted by: Liz Ditz | Friday, April 17, 2009 at 08:51 AM
His politics in general are irrelevant. I have to agree with him in this case: The 4th Amendment was created as a direct result of English soldiers searching any house indiscriminately in search of revolutionaries back in the day. The process of getting a warrant is our protection of privacy.
Look at it another way: undo burden. What if there were checkpoints every 1 mile along all roads within 100 miles of the border? What if all houses within 100 miles of the border could be searched repeatedly, at any time, without cause? Does that sound like it shouldn't be legal?
Posted by: sleze | Saturday, April 18, 2009 at 12:50 PM
It's disheartening to read these post and realize how often ignorant people throw their "rights" around demanding things when they have no understanding of the law.
Trained dogs alerting to a car is probable cause, probable cause means that it is guaranteed to be worthy of a warrant. If he questioned the probable cause he should have use his real right to fight it in court rather than belligerently barking at the officer.
Posted by: T16 | Thursday, May 14, 2009 at 11:34 PM
The actions of this "pastor" is a stench to real christianty. At first sight, watching the pastors testimony on youtube it is indeed terrible. But if anyone bases his point of view and reaction on what you see in a short videoclip, he might be very well mislead and in this case, if we investigate what was going on for some time with this pastor, we should not be very surprised and say...ohh wait a minute. For his case the pastor made a few significant mistakes. The first and biggest mistake is by posting a month or so before this happened another clip on you tube with a recording of another conversation between pastor and Border Patrol Agents. Watching this video I even admire the patience of the BPA's toward this provoking person. Why would someone claim his rights when friendly be asked to cooperate to make/keep this country safe for its citizens? No, provoke them! Give them reason to suspect me, heaving something to hide, so I can make a case that I am a law abiding citizen, who claims his rights? To me this is clearly a case of twisting the truth as the pastor also does with almost all of his "sermons" and writings on the web. Search and you will find out IF you love the truth. This man is narcissistic, self-righteous, condemning anyone who does not agree with him and that needs to be exposed.
Posted by: Sjoerd de Boer | Sunday, May 17, 2009 at 11:56 AM
I do believe that border control checkpoints are a violation of the Constitution, however, as a citizen it is not my role to determine the constitutionality of a existing law. That is the role of the US Supreme Court. Unfortunately, the US Supreme Court made a ruling on a very broad and liberal interpretation of the The Constitution, however, the ruling has been made and so therefore it is a legal law.
That being said, sometimes it is necessary to force an issue to be heard in court. Pastor Anderson's actions and case may very well find itself back up in the US Supreme Court, however, in this day and age, I feel that once again, in the interest of National Security, it would receive a broad and liberal ruling .. again.
I could make the case that the use of a police dog to determine probable cause is bit of a hypocrisy, the very use of the dog itself is an unwarranted search and seizure, where is the probable cause to use the dog in the first place?
I recommend people do their research on colonial America and the Revolutionary War. Especially read about the Sons of Liberty.
The Sons of Liberty, of which American patriot hero's Samuel Adams and John Hancock were members of, DIRECTLY provoked and challenged the British Crown in response to what they felt was unfair and illegal actions. Make no mistake about it, they were rabble-routers and instigators, but their actions directly caused the British Crown to escalate their actions in response, it was those actions that caused further resentments towards the British Crown from the Colonial Americans at the time.
Most people view these men as hero's and patriots. Some view them as outlaws and terrorists. But make no mistake about it, without the actions of the Sons of Liberty, Samuel Adams cousin, John Adams, never would have had a country to be the second president of.
You might want to reread the Declaration of Independence sometime and familiarize yourself with the grievances we had against the King. You might find some uncomfortable similarities.
It was Liberty that caused this nation to be the greatest nation on earth. But we also had a healthier respect for God back then, too.
Posted by: Steven | Monday, July 06, 2009 at 04:03 AM
I do think more people need to know their Revolutionary War history. Why do we just accept authoritarianism without scrutiny. Further, the "asides" that come into play (anti vaccinations, baiting the officers, questioning checkpoints) greatly bother me. We're giving too much of our freedom away. We're not asking the right questions.
Ann
Posted by: A. Reich | Monday, July 06, 2009 at 10:44 AM
RE: Posted by: Steven
You don't know enough about Anderson to compare him with Samuel or John Adams.
Go watch Anderson’s disgusting videos of his sermons on YouTube, very hate filled, angry and controlling man. Anderson is only out to gain personal attention and the power he thinks a full church will gain him. Samuel Adams and John Adams, understood the fight for liberty and demanded personal integrity.
Both of whom would have most likely shot Anderson had they come across Anderson burning Bibles!
Posted by: James Keith | Saturday, July 18, 2009 at 04:08 PM
Just watch anything on youtube by this man, and you will see his thinking about government, governing officials, and officers of the law does NOT mesh with what the New Testament teaches.
Posted by: Fred Daniel | Sunday, August 23, 2009 at 01:56 PM
Could not have happened to a better person. ANYBODY, and I mean ANYBODY that threatens, or intices people to violence against the President of the United States is a criminal under U.S. Criminal code. He got what he deserves, and God will judge him one day for his actions and his sermons. The God I know, shuttered when he heard this pastor spew out hate. A Godly man would NOT want harm done to ANY person no matter what. He should be stripped of his church and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Posted by: Allen Stevens | Saturday, August 29, 2009 at 02:53 PM
You people are amazing. You think Border check points in AZ are unconstitutional, but demand the government defend us from the "illegals". No wonder your called wingnuts...
Posted by: dr. bob the turd | Tuesday, September 01, 2009 at 06:49 PM
Lets see it's Ok TO arrest a man for breaking into his own house but not ok to arrest a white man ctrying to cross the borders refusing to let the police seacrh his car.
Sounds like Pastor Steven just became black to me.
Thank you Jesus there is a God after all
Posted by: Jim | Thursday, September 03, 2009 at 08:38 AM
Why does this guy think he's special and above the law? Most everyone gets stopped since 911. I am glad he got a taste of his own medicine after refusing to comply. Furthermore I am hoping he gets arrested for calling for the death of the President. Many of us white Christians are appalled at these bigoted, uneducated wanna-be Christians who can't follow the Bible or the law.
Posted by: Chal2talk | Saturday, September 05, 2009 at 05:16 PM
I can hear in your voice, your a gay man. So, all this comes together
Posted by: Todd | Monday, September 07, 2009 at 04:48 PM
This man cannot in any way shape, form, or fashion be a man of God!
Posted by: SjP | Monday, September 07, 2009 at 09:45 PM
Dear PAstor,
I am ashamed to be a christian I consider you, to be hate
filled pastor. Listen to you on Alan Colmes I consider you to be a threat to society. To all of you praying President Obama to die. I pray you all recieve cancer. This is why i stay away from organized religion and pray you fail in your attempt as a church. Church is not for hate and I am ashamed to be a christian. I blame the republican party for the last adminstration hates the poor and disabled and I am tired of you hate filled preachers. I would like to throw eggs on you. I consider you a threat.
Sincerely Ron
Posted by: Ron | Tuesday, September 08, 2009 at 10:51 AM
Mr. Anderson
I do not consider you a pastor because a pastor does not wish death upon someone. I do not know what God you serve, but it is not the same God that I serve. I will pray for you.
Posted by: CB | Tuesday, September 08, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Prejudice of any sort can never be explained by logic. That is what the hatred of homosexuality is just another form of prejudice. Some people couch their disapproval by quoting the bible. Then again, there are many differences of opinion as to who wrote the bible, and even if it is relevent today.
There are many men who are fearful of the state of their own sexuality. Those are the ones who are the "gay bashers". Secure, mature people are not threatened by another person's lifestyle.
Posted by: Rich Runyan | Tuesday, September 08, 2009 at 11:59 AM
This is not a pastor,this is a sinful fool. a fool is known by his words
Posted by: james smith | Tuesday, September 08, 2009 at 02:25 PM
We will kill him.
Posted by: Bob | Tuesday, September 08, 2009 at 02:53 PM
And I will kill you!
Posted by: Harold | Tuesday, September 08, 2009 at 10:19 PM
Mr.Anderson in your speech you said quote i hate barack obama. now you are a so called pastor that believes in the word of god. mr. anderson i love you because we should love everyone. it is written in the new testament that jesus is love. now im gonna let uknow hating is a sin. and you say you hate. you should not hate you should love, even if you dont like president obamas vote for abortion you should not wish his death. because while youre wishing his death and hating him youre sewing a seed and it is not a good one those who sew bad seeds will not enter the kingdom of heaven. so i come to warn you love thine enemy those who hate thine enemy do not know god for god is love and loves everyone even those who do things that are wrong. true enough pres.obama shouldnt vote for new born souls to be killed but mr.anderson hating him which is totally against gods will wont help you or him.also you want pre. obama murdered let your men that plot against and wish to murder pres.obama matt.5:21-22 says you have heard of the old times thou shalt not murder and whoever murders shall be in danger of the judgement, but i say unto you he that is angry with his brother enough to kill him will be in danger of the hell fire. but see i want you to come to heaven i wish for everyone to be saved. but that is your choice i bring you these things i say from the word of god. i will pray for you and keep you in my prayers. may the lord be with you.
Posted by: k.r.preezy | Wednesday, September 09, 2009 at 07:24 PM
your a pig
Posted by: pig-hater | Friday, September 11, 2009 at 12:29 PM
I've watched a few of Anderson's clips on You Tube and it left me feeling such an overwhelming sense of disgust and almost pity for this man. He obviously has no idea what he is trying to teach and I believe that he is just saying whatever words come to his lips. He is not an educated man and it is extremely apparent to everyone the moment he opens up his mouth. As for his congregation, they are just as mentally unstable as their wanna-be leader. It's ashame that Anderson doesn't take this opportunity seriously and attempt to teach the church the real and true teachings of Christ. Instead he is poisoning them with his own hatred and misguided beliefs. For that, he will burn in hell.
Posted by: Misty | Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at 05:32 AM
I am gay and I am hurt by some of the things Pastor Anderson preaches .. however, what happened to him at the checkpoint was egregiously abusive and a violation of his rights under our Constitution ... he asked the reason why he was stopped, he asked if he was being detained, he asked if he was free to go, he did not consent to a search of his car .. the dog was obviously brought in to conjure up convenient probable cause ... he seems like an intelligent man, so he had grounds to question the legitimacy of it all, though I have to say, it was not the time and place to do so ... if they say they have probable cause you should get out of the car and let them searched it .. if you don't, they have a right to arrest you ... if you resist arrest they feel they can use duress since they can always claim they deemed you dangerous ... on a different note, it is ironic to see the Pastor so enraged by what happened to him when I am constantly afraid that, it would be the people like him, our own taliban, had they had their way with the law in this country, who would have me arrested, put in jail or even killed for being gay
Posted by: George | Saturday, December 12, 2009 at 05:09 PM
To those who are defending Pastor Anderson I would suggest you check all his Youtube postings (sanderson1611) which include a number of church sermons one of which he wished Obama to die and his kids become orphaned. He also posted a video where he confronted an airport security personnel who was just doing his job. This guy is probably running for office in the future and he knows that creating a scene and using youtube is a fast way to popularity. Do not be decieve.
Posted by: Kiko | Sunday, March 07, 2010 at 08:59 AM
Steven Anderson -
Matthew 5:39-45
39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Posted by: Minh | Tuesday, September 14, 2010 at 09:16 PM
When I first heard about what happened to Anderson, I was concerned, and looked into this further. After seeing his preaching on youtube, I can see why he was considered a danger to law inforcement, and not allowed to travel, until his charges were dismissed. I traveled through these checkpoints many time, as a big rig operator. Having the checkpoints where they are, is for a reason Mr. Anderson does not seem to grasp. So, as far as I am concerned, Mr. Anderson asked for it, and he got it...
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Posted by: mynetpharma | Friday, December 31, 2010 at 10:37 PM
I have listened to a number of Pr Steve's sermons from his church's website and I like him. He's a bit of a red-neck and his utterances often lack compassion, but he's honest and what he says is to a very large degree bible-based.
I don't agree with every interpretation he makes from scriptures but that's OK, I don't know everything. I like to hear new ideas that challenge mine and I especially like to hear someone speaking out against the deception that makes a virtue of tolerance of abortion, fornication, sodomy, you name it, that we have so much of in today's world, both in USA and Australia where I live.
If I sound like an extremist myself, that's the price I pay for telling it like it is. I study the bible every day and have done for the last 5 years. I've still got a lot to learn but based on what I read I believe Pr Steven is sincere, if a bit harsh at times.
But - take the good bits and don't be influenced by the rest.
Posted by: Anto | Monday, February 07, 2011 at 11:38 PM